Hi,<div><br></div><div>Back in the day (I attended library school part-time between 1993 and 1996), we not only had the required reference class, but for my track, in academic reference, I had a humanities reference course and one in the social sciences as well. I could have taken one in the sciences, but didn't. I can't remember what others were offered. The classes were invaluable. Database-wise, we were limited to Dialog and maybe Lexis-Nexis if I remember correctly. </div>
<div><br></div><div>But what I loved, especially in my humanities class, was writing evaluations of print reference sources. I believe that library school faculty could create similar assignments for specialized databases that would serve students well. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Like Max, I believe that reference is best learned through experience. I really valued the time I learned from mentors at the reference desks where I've worked. I've also noticed that some newer librarians (is it generational?) think they know it all because they can type a keyword into a database. Good reference is about listening to patrons and observing colleagues.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Alan<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:38 AM, Max Macias <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mmacias@pcc.edu" target="_blank">mmacias@pcc.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Hi everyone, </div><div><br></div><div><br></div>I had a reference class, and it was alright.<div><br></div><div>However, I really learned reference while working.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It would have been grand to have a reference internship--I think that would be the way to go for library schools.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Max<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:36 AM, Katie Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:katie.anderson@state.or.us" target="_blank">katie.anderson@state.or.us</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-size:12pt;font-family:Times New Roman">
Reference is alive and well in youth services! Children and teens might not remember the details of an assignment, be embarrassed about the topic they want to learn more about, or know how to describe what they need in a way that makes sense to others. On top
of that, they have wildly different reading and comprehension levels. Knowing reference interview techniques is critical to learning what kids and teens really need and identifying their reading/listening level all while respecting their ability level and
privacy.<br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div align="center">Katie Anderson, Library Development Services</div>
<div align="center">* Youth Services Consultant * Oregon Center for the Book Coordinator *</div>
<div align="center">Oregon State Library, 250 Winter St. NE, Salem, OR 97301</div>
<div align="center"><a href="mailto:katie.anderson@state.or.us" target="_blank">katie.anderson@state.or.us</a>, <a href="tel:503-378-2528" value="+15033782528" target="_blank">503-378-2528</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="text-align:center"><font size="3"><span style="font-family:Times New Roman"></span></font></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Times New Roman">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:libs-or-bounces@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">libs-or-bounces@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a> [<a href="mailto:libs-or-bounces@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">libs-or-bounces@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a>] on behalf of Emily Ford [<a href="mailto:fordemily@gmail.com" target="_blank">fordemily@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:libs-or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">libs-or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a><div><div><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Libs-Or] does Oregon need reference librarians?<br>
</div></div></font><br>
</div><div><div>
<div></div>
<div>Caleb,<br>
I'm so glad that you posted to Libs-Or about this. I wanted to but was hesitant.<br>
<br>
I took a stand alone reference course in library school. Some of it seemed like busy work. But I go back to the I gained knowledge each time I get a tough reference question.<br>
<br>
But what was the greatest learning experience I had with reference as a student was spending 6 months serving as a reference intern and then as an employee in the trenches of adult services at Monroe County Public Library in Bloomington, IN. Had I not had a
course that covered the reference interview, reference transactions, etc, my first few months at the public library would have been awful. The course I took prepared with the theory, armed me with resources and techniques. Translating them into practice was
fulfilling. How many students these days do reference internships? If they don't, how can a small portion of a class prepare them for a future job without course and/or reference "in the trenches" experiences?<br>
<br>
My take: we do need reference librarians and reference is not dead. It looks completely different, but it still happens. Sure, lots of L-Net questions I answer are about library accounts, fines, etc and lots of questions I answer at the PSU Library desk deal
with printing in our computer lab. But would I have been able to answer students questions about finding tests and measures or survey instruments without being a trained (in the classroom and in the trenches) reference librarian? Probably not.
<br>
<br>
Maybe the problem is not that reference is dead, but that the traditional reference course curriculum is. How could a full on reference course capture the breadth of "traditional" reference practices and also what's happening with new technologies, new questions,
and new literacies? There must be a way.<br>
<br>
Emily<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:01 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:libs-or-request@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">libs-or-request@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 13:30:10 -0700<br>
From: Caleb Tucker-Raymond <<a href="mailto:calebt@multcolib.org" target="_blank">calebt@multcolib.org</a>><br>
To: "<a href="mailto:libs-or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">libs-or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a>"<br>
<<a href="mailto:Libs-Or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">Libs-Or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a>><br>
Subject: [Libs-Or] does Oregon need reference librarians?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAPO-dkfzY2W0vaQahXifEw=<a href="mailto:k4LiWFT%2BXh6ojW8Kx_i_048cX3A@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">k4LiWFT+Xh6ojW8Kx_i_048cX3A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi, everybody,<br>
<br>
As seen on the Hack Library School blog,<br>
<a href="http://hacklibschool.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/whither-reference/" target="_blank">http://hacklibschool.wordpress.com/2012/10/02/whither-reference/</a>, some<br>
library schools are no longer offering a standalone course in reference,<br>
but instead making reference a smaller component of a larger course. The<br>
rationale is that "reference is dead".<br>
<br>
My first reaction was, "oh no! not again!"<br>
<br>
But I'm interested to start a discussion here because what isn't mentioned<br>
in this post is that the author is discussing Emporia State University,<br>
which, through the Oregon cohorts of the School of Library and Information<br>
Management, is our local library school.<br>
<br>
I attended Emporia's most recent local graduation this past August, and I<br>
got to hear some great speakers contemplate the future of libraries. In<br>
addition, I recall that both our state librarian, MaryKay Dahlgreen, and<br>
the then-president of the Oregon Library Association, Abigail Elder, also<br>
talked about how grateful we all are here in Oregon to have a library<br>
school bringing new professionals into our community. I'm grateful also.<br>
<br>
Do we expect new professionals to begin their careers with knowledge of<br>
reference services and sources?<br>
<br>
To fuel my own curiosity, I looked at the past three months of OLA Jobline<br>
announcements shared with this list. Of 55 descriptions for positions in<br>
Oregon, 11 mentioned reference service specifically - 20%. I didn't get<br>
into which of those required an MLS, but from looking at the titles, only<br>
one is for "reference librarian":<br>
<br>
Archivist for Collections Management, Eugene, OR<br>
Information Resources and Instructional Librarian, Coos Bay, OR<br>
Library Assistant/Branch Lead Worker, Beaverton, OR<br>
Manager, Architecture and Allied Arts Library, Eugene, OR<br>
Part-Time Librarian, Happy Valley, OR<br>
Reference Assistant, Albany, OR<br>
Reference Assistant, Tigard, OR<br>
Reference Librarian, Grand Ronde, OR<br>
Research/Catalog Librarian, Portland, OR<br>
Special Collections Assoc., Portland, OR<br>
Youth Services Associate, Prineville, OR<br>
<br>
I'm interested in hearing your perspective!<br>
<br>
Caleb Tucker-Raymond<br>
<br>
Statewide Reference Service Coordinator<br>
Multnomah County Library<br>
<a href="tel:%28503%29%20988-5438" value="+15039885438" target="_blank">(503) 988-5438</a><br>
<a href="mailto:calebt@multco.us" target="_blank">calebt@multco.us</a><br>
<a href="http://www.oregonlibraries.net" target="_blank">www.oregonlibraries.net</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
<br></div></div>_____________________________________________________<br>
Libs-Or mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Libs-Or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us" target="_blank">Libs-Or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a><br>
<a href="http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/libs-or" target="_blank">http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/libs-or</a><br>
Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for content.<br>
Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or the sender of the message, by phone or email.<br>
Technical questions? Call <a href="tel:503-378-8800" value="+15033788800" target="_blank">503-378-8800</a>.<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Max Macias<br>TSS Training Team<span></span><span></span><br><a href="tel:971-722-8151" value="+19717228151" target="_blank">971-722-8151</a><span></span><span></span><br>
<br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br><a href="https://twitter.com/#%21/TSSTrainer" target="_blank">Training Team Twitter feed @TSSTrainer</a><br><br><br><br><a href="http://blogs.pcc.edu/tss-training/" target="_blank">PCC TSS Training Team Blog</a><br><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Are you an employee who is off-campus and wants to access a page behind the firewall, then you have to tweak the URL. Just add the
following extra characters to the front of any Intranet web link:
<h5><a name="13a27eca4af86399_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_SafeHtmlFilter_EmailingLinkstoOff-CampusUsers-https://view.pcc.edu/login?url="></a><a href="https://view.pcc.edu/login?url=" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://view.pcc.edu/login?url=</a></h5>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<div><img><br>
</div><br>
</div>
<br>_____________________________________________________<br>
Libs-Or mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Libs-Or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us">Libs-Or@listsmart.osl.state.or.us</a><br>
<a href="http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/libs-or" target="_blank">http://listsmart.osl.state.or.us/mailman/listinfo/libs-or</a><br>
Hosted by the Oregon State Library. The Library is not responsible for content.<br>
Questions related to message content should be directed to list owner(s) or the sender of the message, by phone or email.<br>
Technical questions? Call <a href="tel:503-378-8800" value="+15033788800">503-378-8800</a>.<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>