<p dir="ltr">I thought I would share the comments below with you.  I was a member of ALA Council when the change was made to using Sturgis instead of Roberts. The change really helped ALA Council get through its business instead of getting tied up with some esoteric procedure in Roberts that someone had dug out. I really don't understand wanting to move back to those difficult meetings. <br>
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<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Kagan, Al" <<a href="mailto:akagan@illinois.edu">akagan@illinois.edu</a>><br>Date: Mar 25, 2015 9:27 AM<br>Subject: [alacoun] Ballot question<br>To: "SRRTAC-L" <<a href="mailto:srrtac-l@lists.ala.org">srrtac-l@lists.ala.org</a>>, "ALA Council" <<a href="mailto:alacoun@lists.ala.org">alacoun@lists.ala.org</a>><br>Cc: <br><br type="attribution">



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<div>Dear Councilors,</div>
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<div>I assume we all got our election ballots at the same time. I want to follow-up on the discussion we had about changing from Sturgis to
<i>Roberts Rules of Order</i>. For those who have not yet seen the pro and co, I have included it here.</div>
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<div>In my estimation, the pro argument below amounts to: lots of organizations are doing this so we should do it too. Further many of our members may be members of those organizations and therefore possibly familiar with Roberts. I think this is an
 incredibly weak argument. On the other hand, Larry Romans’ con statement is substantive, and it reiterates our original reason for switching to Sturgis. I won’t paraphrase Larry, but when you consider 816 vs. 286 pages, the degree of complexity vs. simplicity
 can only be obvious. </div>
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<div>In considering this question, we need to think about who would gain and who would suffer the consequences. New councilors often find themselves in a new situation where there is a learning curve to becoming effective. They may not have participated
 in a large legislative body before. Part of the learning curve is gaining an understanding of the rules. With this change, even experienced councilors will be at a disadvantage vis a vis parliamentary experts. As we know, rules can be used to facilitate discussion
 and participation or the opposite. The more complex the rules, the more danger of insiders controlling the outcomes. </div>
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<div>I urge you to defeat this initiative and to lobby your various constituencies in the interests of ALA participatory democracy.</div>
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<div>Al Kagan</div>
<div>SRRT Councilor</div>
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<div>African Studies Bibliographer and Professor of Library Administration Emeritus</div>
<div>University of Illinois Urbana/Champaign</div>
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<span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">ITEM #1 –</span><br style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">
<span style="font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold">BYLAW AMENDMENT TO ESTABLISH <span style="font-style:italic">ROBERT’S RULES OF ORDER</span> AS ALA’S PARLIAMENTARY AUTHORITY.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">ACTION: To Amend Article XII of the ALA Bylaws to state:</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
<div style="font-family:Times;margin-left:40px"><span style="font-family:Arial">Robert's Rules of Order, in the latest edition, shall govern the Association in all cases to which it can be applied and in which it is not inconsistent
 with the Constitution, the Bylaws, or special rules of order of the Association.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">CURRENT LANGUAGE:</span><br style="font-family:Times">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">Article XII. Parliamentary Authority</span><br style="font-family:Times">
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<div style="font-family:Times;margin-left:40px"><span style="font-family:Arial">Section 1. Sturgis Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure, in the latest edition, shall govern the Association in all cases to which it can be applied
 and in which it is not inconsistent with the Constitution, the Bylaws, or special rules of order of the Association.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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PROPOSED LANGUAGE:</span><br style="font-family:Times">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">Article XII. Parliamentary Authority</span><br style="font-family:Times">
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<div style="font-family:Times;margin-left:40px"><span style="font-family:Arial">Section 1. [Sturgis Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure] <span style="text-decoration:underline">Robert’s Rules of Order</span>, in the latest
 edition, shall govern the Association in all cases to which it can be applied and in which it is not inconsistent with the Constitution, the Bylaws, or special rules of order of the Association.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">PRO: </span><br style="font-family:Arial">
<span style="font-family:Arial">Although <span style="font-style:italic">Sturgis’ Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure</span> has served the American Library Association well over the last decade, the current version of this work is
 out of print, and has been superseded by the <span style="font-style:italic">American Institute of Parliamentarians Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure (AIPSC)</span>. While the ALA Constitution and Bylaws Committee was reviewing the bylaws
 in order to make recommendations related to this change, it also weighed the advantages and disadvantages in changing the Association’s standard for parliamentary authority back to <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s Rules of Order</span> in
 its latest edition. While the change in in the day-to-day running of Association business would be minimal, the Committee felt that<span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> offers several advantages over <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span>,
 including: the widespread use of <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> by library boards, faculty organizations, and the like and the subsequent familiarity with <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span>that members bring
 to the Association, a greater number of experts on <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> than other systems of parliamentary procedure when the Association may need to call upon a new parliamentarian, and a greater number of learning tools
 and explanatory aids available for <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> over <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span>. Therefore, the Committee unanimously resolved that the Association change the bylaws to reflect the
 change to <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s Rules of Order</span> as the parliamentary authority for the American Library Association, and this was approved by the ALA Council at the Midwinter Meeting in 2015.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<div style="font-family:Times;text-align:right"><span style="font-family:Arial">Matthew P. Ciszek, ALA Councilor-at-Large</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">CON:  </span><br style="font-family:Arial">
<span style="font-family:Arial">Almost twenty years ago the ALA Parliamentarian and the ALA Orientation Committee urged ALA to adopt <span style="font-style:italic">The Standard Code of Parliamentary Procedure</span>, compiled by the American
 Institute of Parliamentarians. <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> uses ordinary language whereas <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> uses esoteric language. Although both <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> and <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> are
 the same about making motions and the rules of debate, the important thing is what <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> <span style="text-decoration:underline">doesn’t</span> include: troublesome procedures that few people know
 that can be used to tie up proceedings. For example, in <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> if you want to reconsider an action, you just vote to reconsider. <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> has 25 kinds of motions
 that can be reconsidered, 25 that can’t, 20 only if the vote was negative, and one only if positive. <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> requires 20 pages to discuss how to reconsider a motion. Robert’s is 816 pages long; <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> 286
 pages. The arguments used 20 years ago are the same reasons that we should not change back to <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span>.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
<br style="font-family:Arial">
<span style="font-family:Arial">Through <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> hundreds, perhaps thousands, of ALA members have learned parliamentary procedure. <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> has been adopted
 by state library associations.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<span style="font-family:Arial">The proposed change to <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> is almost as complicated as <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> itself. Although the new authority officially
 would be <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span>, even the proposers realize that <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> is too complicated. What we would actually use is <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s
 Rules of Order in Brief</span>. Only a few would learn the full <span style="font-style:italic">Robert’s</span> to gain the esoteric knowledge to use Robert’s to full advantage.  The move to <span style="font-style:italic">AIPSC</span> was
 a good decision; the current proposal is a bad idea.</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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<div style="font-family:Times;text-align:right"><span style="font-family:Arial">Larry Romans, ALA Councilor-at-Large</span><br style="font-family:Arial">
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