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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I hate to push the copyright button here, because I think the
bigger issue to most of us is attribution (citing our sources), assuming that
we are not wholesale “reissuing” a compiled work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The copyright protection for “compiled works” is, as
your reference to Brad Templeton notes, “complex.” I’ve put
in “bold” the pertinent parts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<h3><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";font-weight:normal'>Creative
Work</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></h3>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>The
first big issue involves defining what it is to make a creative work. The law
requires that it exist in some tangible form -- it can't just be in your head
or sailing through the ether, it has to be on disk, paper, carved in stone
(sculpture) or the like. It has to be creative (that's a tough one for lawyers
to define) and that means <b>it can't just be factual data</b>. But most things
you write in English (or C++) are going to be creative works, plus anything you
photograph or sculpt or draw or record. (What you say isn't copyrighted until
it's put onto tape -- it has to be in tangible form.) Anything you write and
post to USENET is almost certainly a creative, copyrightable work. Anything you
post-process with a computer (like object code) is a derivative work, still
copyrighted. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>You can also do
creative editing or collecting work. So that while facts can't be copyrighted, <b>clever,
creative organization of the facts can be</b>. This is called a compilation
copyright and it's <b>somewhat complex</b>. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>There are some
specific exceptions in some countries. Fonts as printed on paper can't be
copyrighted for historical reasons. Nothing done by the U.S. government can be
copyrighted inside the USA. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>And of course <b>you
can't copyright something somebody else did without their permission, or derive
your work from their work</b>.“<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html">http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, let’s take two examples. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>A Tombstone. You copy the information, put it together with some
other information, say a census of the cemetery, and publish it. The format you
used is copyrightable, but the essential information of the data (information)
on the tombstone, is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I go to the cemetery, take a picture of the tombstone, and
publish the picture with a caption that lists the information on the tombstone.
The photo is protected by copyright, the information in the caption is not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Example two.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You find obituaries in various newspapers about people and copy
them out to another format. IF the newspaper published is old enough to have
lost its copyright, you are ok. If the newspaper edition is still under
copyright, you may be ok, under fair use, but may not be if you re-publish as a
“new work” and sell it. Lots of Ifs, ands, and maybes here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If I find the same obituaries, in a different way – say I
look them up in GenealogyBank.com, instead of the paper copies or films you
used, the same rules apply, or not. Even if I cite the source back to the
original newspaper, and it “looks” just like yours, it is a “new”
issue.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If I find your set, and copy them (outside of I’m really
not being a good researcher), whose copyright am I messing with? Yours? Or the
original source?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We had an incident on this list awhile back, where the current
owner of a newspaper (or magazine, I don’t remember) wanted to claim
copyright to material that had been published by the company back in the early
1900s or earlier. They intimidated one of our members by claiming that they
would sue or something like that. I think they were wrong, but since I’m
not the one who would wind up in court, it isn’t my fight.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There are some sites that are claiming copyright to something
that, in its original form, is out of copyright, just because they have put it
up on the internet. I know this may be yet to be decided, but if you read
copyright law, I think you’ll find out that re-issue does not produce new
copyright. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I used to have people who worked for and with me who thought
that, because we were a state agency, that we could make photocopies of
cartoons, chapters, workbooks, to use in classes because it was “fair use”
and we “weren’t trying to make a profit.” It took a
long time to convince them that they were doing something illegal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am a little concerned about the “Find-a-Grave”
website now. They already have a notice up that you cannot put up photos you
don’t hold copyright to, now, I would guess that they will put up some
notice about the copyright to the tombstone data and/or accompanying obituaries
or biographies. I would hope that’s all they do. It cannot be up to them
to police the contributions of thousands of people, and take off anything they
find troublesome.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But, all of us/you who have such on the site, you might want to
go to your “people” and make sure there is nothing there that is
going to be dumped. Because the only real difference between one person posting
an obituary or biography, and one person posting hundreds of obituaries/biographies,
is scale.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I think it’s more important here that we, as genealogists,
recognize each other’s contributions, and cite our sources, than that we
get into arguments about what is or is not copyrightable. In the case
here, the person could have merely put a link to Stephanie’s website (and
it would have been quicker). The downside to that, as we know, is that URLs
come and go – evidence the Linn County site that had the “Arrived
in Oregon” information. The basic answer here is that the compiler
of the tombstones, matching them with the obituaries/biographies, woulda,
coulda, shoulda, communicated with Stephanie first. My guess is that they could
have come to an agreement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So, how about more “asking permission” and less “asking
forgiveness.”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Pat<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In Tucson <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>>>>></span>This is more than a matter of
simply citing sources or giving credit or recognition to
the author. This is more than simple plagarism or fair use. I have
no doubt that a court would find this a copyright violation if it were ever
taken that far. Here is a link to a website that discusses copyright in
easy to understand terms:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html">http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html</a><br>
<br>
Carla<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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