[or-roots] Ancestry.com - Response to Pat

Sun Jan 18 14:04:49 PST 2009

Carla

With that information, I set out to replicate your results.

On the “old” initial form using

Exact match

david m           christie            exact spelling

lived in USA any state

1898 to _____

I got:

Census & Voter Lists 7  

  6 1930 United States Federal Census  

  1 1900 United States Federal Census  

Birth, Marriage & Death 18  

  4 California Marriage Index, 1960-1985  

  4 Texas Marriage Collection, 1814-1909 and 1966-2002  

  3 California Divorce Index, 1966-1984  

  3 Social Security Death Index  

  1 Cook County, Illinois Death Index, 1908-1988  

  » View all 18 results  

Directories & Member Lists 56  

  34 U.S. Public Records Index  

  14 Massachusetts City Directories  

  5 British Phone Books, 1880-1984  

  2 New Hampshire City Directories  

  1 Connecticut City Directories  

One of these, the 1930 census has (I think) your David M, living in Washington.

The rest of it of course, has every other David M – and perhaps “your” David M – I didn’t check them.

When I change USA to Canada, the picture changes drastically.

  2 1930 United States Federal Census  

  1 1901 Census of Canada  

Birth, Marriage & Death 1  

  1 British Columbia Death Index: 1872 to 1979  

Immigration & Emigration 1  

  1 Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935  

The 1930 has the David M in Washington, and another in MA, born in 1879, but whose wife was born in 1898. That is within the general parameters of this type of query.

The 1901 Canadian census has David M, b 1899 in Ontario, son of David and Robinia. Presumably yours?

The BC death index has a Charles David M Christie – no birth date, died 1978. The age is 68, so I suppose one *could* expect the program to extrapolate the birth year.

The Canadian passenger lists has a David M Christie b ca 1895, from Glasgow, Scotland. Again, the birth year was estimated, and the boat was in Canada.

I suspect that the other listings you mentioned are not specifically for David M Christie, but perhaps David Christie. That would be my next “cut” in a search.

Now, using the “new” search, with the same criteria, I got:

 <javascript:TGN.SM.TogSumCat('sumCats_35')> Census & Voter Lists 

5   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1901canada&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> 1901 Census of Canada 

2   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1911canada&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> 1911 Census of Canada

1  <javascript:TGN.SM.TogSumCat('sumCats_34')> Birth, Marriage & Death 

1   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=ontario_births&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1909

1  <javascript:TGN.SM.TogSumCat('sumCats_39')> Military 

1   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=cansoldierwwi&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> Canadian Soldiers of World War I, 1914-1918

1  <javascript:TGN.SM.TogSumCat('sumCats_40')> Immigration & Emigration 

1   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=usnaturalizationoriginals&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> U.S. Naturalization Records - Original Documents, 1795-1972

6  <javascript:TGN.SM.TogSumCat('sumCats_42')> Family Trees 

2   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=pubmembertrees&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> Public Member Trees 

2   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=owt&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> OneWorldTree 

2   <http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=membertrees&so=2&pcat=ROOT_CATEGORY&MS_AdvCB=1&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=2&msT=1&gss=angs-g&gsfn=david+m&gsfn_x=1&gsln=christie&gsln_x=1&rg_81004010__date=1898&81004010__date_x=1&msbpn=3243&msbpn__ftp=Canada&msbpn_x=1&msbpn__ftp_x=1&81004030__date_x=1&msdpn_x=1&msdpn__ftp_x=1&msrpn_x=1&msrpn__ftp_x=1&_8000C000_x=1&_80008000_x=1&_80018000_x=1&_80014000_x=1&_80010000_x=1&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&ne=2> Private Member Trees

David M does not show up in the 1901 census (one of these is David Horace, the other is someone else). However, when we change the “range” from 1898 to 1897-1899, we get David M, who was said to be born 20 Jun 1899 on the census. (Rule 2B – just as with the 1900 US, the years for the birth are not always accurate – I almost always give censuses a year or two automatically).

I don’t know when David M came across to the US, but there is a border crossing for a David Christie (no M) who came in 1913. In this case, not being quite so specific on the name, gets the result.

And, by opening up the age range, we find David Maitland Christie’s naturalization.

I know it’s tough to try to second guess Ancestry – or any of the other databases – when it comes to what a “match” is, but I figure I almost always start with the “old” basic form, play around with the dates and versions of the name, until I’ve exhausted ideas – or my patience.  The first thing I’d do is drop the “m” because it is really too narrow. You won’t find the naturalization record using that, because it uses Maitland.

Only then do I go to the “broader” search (the “New”) search, because it is a bit too broad for most purposes.

The “contiguity” queries – as you find in the newspapers – are even tougher. If one word shows up within x words of another word, you have a hit.

You just have to tolerate it if you don’t want to do *all* the looking yourself.

I’ve built databases and designed queries for them, and believe me, it is a very tough task. The fact that you can get anywhere with this is amazing.

My bottom line recommendation is to use the “old” form until you’ve exhausted the possibilities, then move to the new one if you feel you need to.

I know this is frustrating, but if you think *you’re* frustrated, multiple yourself times the number of members of Ancestry, each with slightly different needs, abilities, and takes on what’s important, and then put your many selves into Ancestry’s shoes, and try to meet all those needs, abilities, and priorities.

I just wish my relatives had been kind enough to always spell their names the same way, spell them to the enumerator for the census, keep important dates in a family book, such as the Bible, and make sure everyone had a copy, generation after generation, not move around between censuses, especially to two or more locations, and if completing documents for military pensions, wills and so on, be sure to name the wife by her family name and given name, as well as her two parents and any siblings.  

Sigh. . . .

Pat (in Tucson)

From: or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [mailto:or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of cklooster at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:51 AM
To: or-roots at listsmart.osl.state.or.us
Subject: Re: [or-roots] Ancestry.com - Response to Pat

Okay Pat in Tuscon...here's a quick example.  If I do a search for my maternal grandfather, David M. Christie born 1898 in Ontario, Canada, and stipulate that priority be given to US collections and that all terms be matched exactly; I get eight responses.  The first two are actually accurate; an entry on the One World Tree, and a US Naturalization Record.  The last six are for unrelated individuals ranging from David Horace Christie to Paschal A.M. Christie.  What kind of "exact match" is that?  If I uncheck the "match all terms exactly" box and repeat the search, I get 431,864 (not a bazillion, but you get the picture) responses, but of the first twenty on the page, only the first two (same two as the first search) are the right person.  Now before anyone on the list decides to help me out, please understand that I'm just giving this as an example...I already know everything I need to know about my grandfather.  :-) <http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/resources/core/images/smile.gif>    My point is that there are a number of other records on Ancestry.com that reference this man...several border crossing references as well as US census records.  Since I know where he was living in any given year, it is relatively simple to give much more detailed information to pull up the records I needed.  But had I not known what state or county he was living in, or if I did not know his birthplace or birthd ate, sorting through all of the "hits" on Ancestry is cumbersome and time consuming. 

I am working on a number research projects that involve people about whom much less is known than I know about my grandfather. These are the situations in which the limitations of the Ancestry search function is less than satisfactory...and don't even get me started about the silly search function for the vintage newspaper collection on Ancestry which pulls bits of two different words together to make a single word "matching" your search term!

What I would like is a search function that is more accurate and can be defined more narrowly if needed...if I give the name of a person who was born, died, and resided in Alaska in a given time period, I am pretty much not interested in 400,000 people with similar names living in the other 48 states in other time periods.

I know...picky, picky!

In short, I've been using Ancestry since its inception and will continue to do so (or at least until my dwindling 401K and Ancestry's increasingly horrendous subscription price bring my research to an end) but from time to time I feel the urge to vent my frustration.  Consider my frustration vented!

Carla  

-----Original Message-----
From: Kith-n-Kin <Kith-n-Kin at cox.net>
To: 'or-roots mail list' <or-roots at listsmart.osl.state.or.us>
Sent: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 7:57 am
Subject: Re: [or-roots] Ancestry.com

I rarely have a problem of “too many hits” when I look someone up – unless, of course, there are a bazillion of them.

Could you give us a name and parameters so we can try to replicate what’s happening? I’ve not been able to figure out what the problem is.

Pat (in Tucson)

From:  <mailto:or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us> or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us [ <mailto:or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us?> mailto:or-roots-bounces at listsmart.osl.state.or.us] On Behalf Of  <mailto:cklooster at aol.com> cklooster at aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:58 PM
To:  <mailto:or-roots at listsmart.osl.state.or.us> or-roots at listsmart.osl.state.or.us
Subject: Re: [or-roots] Ancestry.com

Ancestry.com...the site you love to hate...or hate to love.  If they are actually blaming their recent woes on AOL or Firefox, they're delusional.  I have Explorer7 and have been experiencing the same frustration as others posting on this list.  Some of the problems seems to have been resolved, but last night Ancestry wouldn't open several census pages ("try again later") and returned a "This individual is not listed on Worldwide Tree" statement for several different people who were identified on the trees in the search function.  Parts of the site were working but other parts obviously were not.  The website continues to be slow-slow-slow to load.  I suspect that they've outgrown their technical capabilities and are trying to play catch-up.  I continue to be frustrated with their search function that returns a bazillion people no matter how restrictive you set the search parameters.  I do think it is worthwhile to keep giving them feedback about the aspects of the site that are less than stellar.  The areas that are identified as problematic by the most people will undoubtedly get the most attention...squeaky wheel and all that.  

Carla

-----Original Message-----
From: JOHN LAURA MCKINNEY birdman_326 at msn.com

Hi, folks.  I called ancestry, and they told me that folks using aol or firefox has been an issue since updating.  They had me load int. explorer 7 and now I can get in.  Thanks,  Laura

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